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You said it best.
In my words:
Way back when, the only way to see undeveloped/developing acts were at clubs. Today, we have YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Reels, etc. We can sit on our couch and watch. Is it a better experience? I dont know. But for now, the consumer has voted. They aren't going to the club and therefore, those clubs need to rethink their experience.
Darren Herman
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you are totally right on this. i had been booking clubs and my own shows for years…but by 2013 the shift was happening. i saw it coming and got out in 2015.
Yes i miss it. Yes i miss the bands! Yes i miss helping bands get to where they needed to go. it was always starting with opening and then moving your way up. once you could be in front of the headliner people would hear you and decide on their own.
it was always a natural progression. bands start at clubs then go to the palace then the palladium then off they go. pretty much goldenvoice would take over from there!
i could go on and on but what's the point? things change and you go with it or you don't. i chose to get out while i was on top.
thanks
Dayle Gloria
Scream
Club With No Name
The Viper Room
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Totally spot on! I used to love going to a club show in hopes of discovering my new favorite band. That's not the case today. I can always check out the music beforehand somewhere on the internet. I only see live music that I've already heard before. The only time this isn't the case is when I catch the tail end of an opener. But that's becoming rarer. I will often times look up the opener on the internet before a show to see if it's worth my while. I just don't see music anymore they I haven't already heard digitally. I can even look up the setlist to see if I dig the set their playing. The way people experience live music has changed and the industry needs to adjust to that change. They will mean some awesome places have to shut down. I'm sorry for that but the solution is not to try and hold back natural change. We've got to accept the way it is.
John N. Hamilton
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I don't know much about the UK club scene but clubs closing in the US is not necessarily about lack of attendance. It's almost always about ownership / management taking their eyes off the ball.
Usually one or a combo of a few things:
- LYV or AEG (or a more sophisticated sharper business person) opens a club down the street and makes it extremely difficult to compete on artist guarantees so the club winds up with scraps and is unable to adjust.
- Landlord won't renew a below market lease
- Can't find a decent talent buyer / in house promoter - apparently what we do is rocket science
- Lack of sophistication / inability to adjust to or recognize newer business models (like digital marketing)
- Cruising on a great location and not putting enough effort into marketing / promo
- Burnt out owner or control freak refuses to loosen grip but no longer can keep up
- Ownership runs it like a personal keg party and doesn't pay much attention to the actual business of being in business. This usually is hand in hand with cruising on a great location.
- Owner / buyer only likes one or two genres whose fanbases can't sustain or are aging out (ex - all punk rock / all metal / all jambands) and the product goes stale.
Aside from the LYV / AEG situation and landlords wanting their vig, both sadly facts of life, the others are where the bargains are!
Dan Millen
(Note: By today's standard, the Wiltern, a 2,300 seat venue, is considered by the business to be a club. I'm referring to venues with a max capacity of 500. Really, 400 or less.)
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No question that you're right: clubs, especially the dreaded "pay-to-play" clubs, are doomed. But...
There is one kind of club that should stay open - places like the Write-Off Room and the Baked Potato here in LA. I'm sure you're very familiar with these two clubs. Both are owned and run by musicians and each is a place for musicians who are not looking for record deals but just want to play in front of people for the love of it.
Session players, older musicians, road musicians in between gigs, all can play and personally I love to go check it out every once in a while. Billy Vera and the Beaters are coming this Saturday to the Write-Off and at the Baked Potato, the under-appreciated Sara Niemietz will be there Thursday and Luis Conte on Friday.
I for one love to go and hear great music played by great players who aren't looking to climb the pop ladder.
Best,
John Boylan
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Bob, It's not about "starting in clubs", it's as much about having places to actually 'go and show' after starting "online"; it's about keeping club-level venues going as feeders to the bigger, established venues; and - scratch my eyes out - to re-energize people going out for actual live, physical music experiences that is anything other than big acts in big venues. There's a whole bigger music industry that may never get near a chart (whatever the f*ck that means today), or even get to play in arenas. Deer Tick springs to mind, as a local N.E. example (so far!) Or old school farts (like us) who draw solidly but not constantly enough to fill 2,500+ venues.
You haven't spent a lot of time in the past 20 years in clubs in the hinterlands (i.e outside the major cities) or in the UK. They are there - almost everywhere, and a lot of them struggling to keep the doors open, and that's not just because people aren't going. The commercail real estate market is a bastard. Sure - it's a harsh road, but let's not make it "highways or nothing", FFS.
But, if Drumpf gets in…most entertainment that isn't Kid Schlock or similar will eventually be banned, anyway. The barbarians are already through the damn gate.
Best,
Hugo Burnham
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Why must there be one or the other?
The internet and social media are a great tool for bands, comedians and other performers and for clubs to use to grow awareness for an artist. It used to be a Tower or Best Buy listening post or an end cap at Borders. This is so much more efficient.
The end of clubs is GREED and the related value of real estate. And short sightedness.
Our business (live entertainment) drives traffic to almost every other business. And... we give a city a soul and identity, which makes the places around it fertile for growth of apartments, hotels and businesses who want to house their offices there because they want to be able to compete for workers because they are in a cool place.
Gary Witt
The Pabst Theater Group | Milwaukee
(414) 242-8253
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"in 2023, returned an entire gross profit across all 830 such venues in the UK of just £2.9 million. 43% of Grassroots Music Venues in the UK made a loss in 2023."
"Budget Statement from Music Venue Trust": t.ly/jjYVd
Those numbers are insane!? 830 venues only 57% are profitable and those that are averaging £6100 a year?!? No wonder they are all shutting down! Are these coffee shops that double as "stages"?
Working at a well known computer store on Black Friday, we would clear $1M selling the latest tech, in a single day!!
We can a discuss the cultural need for spaces like these, but wow! Pass the hat is not a business plan!
-Andrew Meadors
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A fair and solid position. I wouldn't consider a forced tax from large venues or big acts to subsidize the little ventures, either. And the extension of our modern culture, called the internet, still lacks authentic roots.
Meanwhile, growth and awareness for live music continue to intrigue a young audience. Why? Because digital is cold and stale? Do generic record industry products sound the same? Is it lifeless because another pop singer is overproduced and sings "multiple impassionate writers" music? Who knows...
But, in honor of "the redlight district," letting the clubs close or die is akin to stomping on the soil of culture. Authentic culture and the arts are only inspired by the soil and activities of the region, and deep down, you know that is true.
Nick Sample
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Obviously…you've never owned a physical venue offering true hospitality amidst a shared
experience with like-minded humans…if you had…you would truly appreciate the never ending need for "small" entertainment venues.
Stay home, go to your big backstage and feel special. Your choice.
We'll be out here discovering something truly special, live and in person.
Mitchell Fox
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Spot on. Nobody gives a sh*t anymore about the unknown, unsigned act. Either you're a legacy act, a new artist who went viral off TikTok or you're a cover band getting paid to entertain built in crowds. I'll be honest, "creating content" feels like a fool's errand when it's mostly just shouting into the abyss. And begging family and friends to come see you at the local bar isn't very fun either. Clubs are the places where people discover bands. You'll never get that experience on your phone. It was like those stupid chat apps we all tried during the lockdown. They were fun and novelty for 2 weeks then lost the appeal. We need to be there. So go ahead and close the clubs at your own risk.
Just Danny Jay
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'...today's generation doesn't want to go to clubs to listen to the music...' they want to go and socialize with the performance as background sound(track) to their lives. I was tempted to leave a club this past summer as the volume level of conversation, having dipped down when the group took the stage for its second set, then rose higher than it was during the break.
More's the pity small venues are closing--post-lockdown economics are daunting at best--but if the audiences don't want to pay attention to 'unsigned/developing acts', what's a struggling operation to do (or a fledgling artist for that matter)...
Doug Collette
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Hey Bob, I Lived in a small Hudson river city where the small, mom-and-pop stores were ripping off the residents big time, making money hand over fist till Home Depot opened couple miles away! Best thing ever happened to that whole area
Schuyler Bishop
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So rock is dead and the clubs are dead? Which is the chicken and which is the egg? If new music starts on the internet I suspect that is because there are not enough performance opportunities for young artists to develop and be heard. Music clubs are not essential for creating every type of music but they are if you want great rock music. And yes, there are exceptions but they are exactly that, exceptions. I don't want to go back either but I do want there to be great rock artists ahead.
Steve Ward
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Today, at 74, I am blessed to have made a "Living" playing music. Performing Full-time in nightclubs, lounges, hotel circuits, Disney gigs, Playboy Clubs, etc. Starting in 1971, Like most "career musicians" I decided my retirement would be my choice and I would probably never pick a date as I love what I do.
The COVID-19 era in 2019 was the beginning of the end, followed by the Inflation of America's economy, we saw budgets cut and doors closing all around us. Stages that would accommodate 7-piece bands now "swallow" a guitar player on a stool.
Your observations are Spot On, Bob. I suppose I could cut our budget and keep on keeping on, but financial realities override Performance Ego.
Thank you for your knowledge and insight on all things entertainment.
Carry on and stay in tune…..
Blessings, Paul Ferguson
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Folks moving on to non production jobs due to Covid really hurt the talent pool. The lack of club gigs as a production training ground increases the challenge. You can't have safe arena shows without talented experienced production staffing
Best Regards,
Steve Gietka
SMG Entertainment LLC
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I never considered the idea of letting clubs go away as you suggest, but you've touched a truth here.
I cut my teeth playing in clubs. It was what we did, and we grew from it, but even then it was a hard, grinding slog. My ears still ring from it. I still play occasional club shows, but only because I can sell out a small room and I enjoy it. It's certainly not going to build my career. And I rarely go out to what we used to call the church of rock n roll, seeking that ephemeral buzz of discovering a great new live band (World Party at Cabaret Metro in Chicago, as an example). I saw Aimee Mann in a small club last week and it was… fine. She sounded great and had a tight band, but was it worth the work of going out?
And to be a young artist (like my daughter Fiona Grey) it won't even give the little it gave us. I could at least pay the rent playing live original music in clubs. They haven't had that spirit here for quite a while.
Provocative piece. Thanks for all you do.
Ralph Covert
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Kids don't develop live chops playing to Tik Tock. Ultimately will affect the big shows when people get fed up paying big bucks to see mediocre performers.
Kelly Breaks
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'So, let's say I even want to go out to a club. Do I really want to hear some unsigned band playing original material, drowning out my conversation? ABSOLUTELY NOT!"
An unsigned band playing original material in a club is the essence of everything you have written about for years.
Cavern Club anybody?
Clubs can fail for a number of reasons, most likely it's the rent. The social aspect of a live music experience in a small sweaty club is one of the building blocks of the music business yesterday and today. Lose them and you will see a void in the infrastructure of music. Doormen, ticket takers, bartenders, roadies, sound techs, and groupies are all part of the show, not to be found on the internet.
A tax on larger venues to support smaller ones is enlightened self interest. Only a pig wouldn't see that.
Patrick Lyons
Veteran FORMER club operator
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In many ways, Starbucks' struggles with customer dissatisfaction reflect a broader trend across industries where consumers are increasingly drawn to unique, smaller establishments rather than large chains. For coffee lovers, the appeal of independent coffee shops lies not only in a desire for high-quality, artisanal brews but also in the experience that comes with visiting a local, intimate venue. These coffee shops often prioritize craftsmanship and community over transactional efficiency, providing a more personalized and curated atmosphere that contrasts with the often impersonal feel of a big chain.
Similarly, while the music industry has shifted largely to an online model, many people still crave physical spaces that foster genuine connection and creativity. Just as some prefer independent coffee shops over Starbucks, there's a similar allure in live, local music venues where intimacy, artistry, and a sense of belonging take precedence over scale and commercialization. In the case of coffee, it's less about "bougie" preferences or political affiliations and more about a desire for authentic, grounded experiences in a fast-paced, digital world. These independent coffee shops and smaller venues offer something chains can't: a space where local culture and personal connection flourish, making them an alternative to the corporate ubiquity of brands like Starbucks and Live Nation.
Jeremiah Younossi
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I get what you're saying but I can't get behind the idea of letting clubs close even if I'm not convinced the tax on larger gigs is the right approached.
I have worked with too many people who do a good job running venues in Wales and not only do they build their business ethos on original music, but wider arts and focusing on being a place that ultimately serves the community. And that's a good alternative for the times that any of us have had a bit too much of browsing online.
I do genuinely believe these places can be well run, and allow people to build their acts and get bodies in. Not all of them sure, but not every act is going to be in the scarcity game and sky rocket from internet to securing a high profile support acts.
There needs to be a decent range of venues for live music to be presented and the opportunity for any great quality act to shine through and raise their profile.
Rayan Elliott
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Thanks Bob,so true.But a few clubs have started having Happy Hour shows for us oldsters.Dinner and drink specials,and to see a live band play before 9:45 pm brings in people.Thanks Bob,stay well,Ted Keane
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I think you're missing the larger point…the socialization.
You can have your beer delivered and listen to your music on line…it's very efficient …but it isn't the same as going to the pub…or the club.
Yes, the world and the business world has changed but not always for the better.
Efficiency vs humanity, pick one? Is that where we are? May be.
But it isn't better…it isn't even good.
Alan Crane
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Bob, you may be right about the economics but not the heart of music for me. I have seen many famous and not so famous acts in small venues.
I don't want to watch artists on a jumbotron with 30,000 of my closest friends. I'd rather experience the vibe and connection on stage.
--albhy galuten
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What you call socialization online is de- socialization, which is why half the people in this country are emotionally and spiritually dysfunctional and can be turned into an angry mindless cult. It's also why you are making an ersatz living lobbing pecadillos into the ethersphere. Get a life Bob. Go to a club. Have a beer. Look a girl in the eye. Listen to a musician that has the guts to do it live
John Gunn
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Kind of like the only folks hyped about major labels are the ones still cashing a major-label paycheck—and that club's getting smaller by the day. Truth is, the only ones clinging to these fading relics—music videos, radio, the rest—are the last few who still pull a paycheck from them. Time changes everything and time is up.
You get the picture. The credits are rolling, and the audience has already left.
Sal Salami
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You miss the point .
The clubs keep the industry going. They give a place for artists to learn their craft (song writing and preforming) on the way up and a survival income for those on the way down.
Think comedy clubs, the incubator for all the new comedy talent.
Some people even like the club experience for both.
Ron Stone
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Interesting take, Bob, but let's unpack idea that clubs are obsolete. That take that might sound logical at first blush, but the notion that clubs are relics, outpaced by the digital age and streaming algorithms, never dips beneath surface-level analysis. Clubs aren't nostalgia factories; they're the engine room of musical culture. They're where the weird and wonderful ideas are tested in real-time, where bands play until their fingers are raw, and where audiences still get to feel something unfiltered. Let's be real: nobody who wants to have a leisurely chat with friends goes to a club featuring live music. That's not their purpose, never has been. Live music clubs are for people who want to feel music, the kind of people who let sound wash over them until it's a full-body experience. It's not background noise; it's the main event. The notion that a club should cater to casual conversation misunderstands the whole point. A live music venue is a temple to decibels and discovery, not a lounge where you sip cocktails and talk about your week. If that's what somebody's after, there's a bar down the street for that.
Sure, Sam Smith can go from streaming sensation to sold-out arena overnight. But that's an outlier, not a blueprint. The real music ecosystem still starts with that low stage, that sticky floor, that hum of anticipation when a band you've never heard of plugs in. As someone who has covered live music for thirty years, I assure you that this is anything but a toothless, romantic ideal. I've seen our local metal club packed to the gills on a Tuesday night to catch sets from obscure European death metal bands passing through town. And if that's not niche enough, know that the club is normally at capacity at or before the first support band. This is happening everywhere! There's still an undeniable hunger for live music in all its forms, and it's not the arenas with their spectacle and LED overload that satisfy it—it's the clubs. Those cramped, dimly lit rooms are where that thirst gets quenched, where the raw, unfiltered essence of live performance still thrives.
Supporting these venues isn't clinging to the past; it's safeguarding the future. Let them close, and all we'll have left is music that's algorithm-approved and frictionless—a world where the lifeblood of music is sapped dry.
Best regards,
Joe Daly
Freelance Contributor
Metal Hammer, Classic Rock, Men's Health, Bass Player et al.
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I like your posts, you share a lot of interesting views on a multiple of issues.
When it comes to clubs I've always held the view that watching a band play live in a club is more often than not a much better experience.
Better than listening to music on the radio or cds or even vinyl. Music was meant to be heard/experienced live.
As for the arena and stadium shows most people are watching gigantic flat screens. The performers look like tiny toy soldiers to most of the audience. There is a great vibe from being with a large crowd displaying their appreciation for the same band. But seeing the Stones at the El Mocambo (Toronto, Chinatown) in the mid seventies was a hell of a more enjoyable experience than seeing them at the Scotiabank Arena.
Bars are closing because it's no longer a joke to drink and drive like back in the day when Johnny Carson bragged about being stopped once again in his monologues.
Getting home safely was a badge of honour.
My experience with putting on shows in bars is limited to 140 shows in 11 years in Vancouver area. I've seen the change as laws became stricter and more screening resulted in ever increasing convictions.
Not only did the audience begin to dwindle but those who came drank very little and bar owners countered with raising prices for food and drink.
As George wrote, All Things Must Pass.
Rodney Dranfield
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Never thought of it this way, and boy is this sobering and sad to old rock & rollers like myself. However I feel a bit differently, because it was rarely/never the untested, unheard of bands that I went to see in small clubs. They were the SUPPORT acts for the cool bands on the way up that had often times just been signed, or were about to be. I forget who opened and it doesn't matter, but this paradigm is what allowed me to watch Ian Hunter with Mick Ronson(!!) from 10 feet away in Huntington Beach. Or Van Halen at the old KROQ Cavern Club (is that what they called it?) in Hollywood, literally when the first record was being released. We all have those stories (Patti Smith at the Golden Bear!), and none of those bands were big enough (yet) to play the big rooms. Aw well, I'll cuddle up with my memories, and be glad that I was part of the "live music generation"!
Young Hutchinson
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With reference to "Let the clubs close"…. Lets NOT.
I read with interest your commentary and whilst I think you have some valid points you're also missing something that is important. From your prospective clubs don't really offer anything exciting anymore and you're not far wrong but you are wrong because it really depends on the club.
You cant tell me the clubs in Las Vegas are closing, they are not. They are paying David Guetta over a million dollars a show to play there… in a club…. !!!!!!! and the clubs are packed and people pay tens of thousands of dollars to get a table and drink the night away surrounded by other people paying tens of thousands of dollars to see DJ's like David Guetta play.
So it all comes down (in my opinion) to the offering. If you have a sh*tty club with sh*tty sound and sh*tty DJ's and sh*tty bathrooms with sh*tty floors and staff with sh*tty attitudes then yes, I agree people have had enough of that and they are leaving those clubs like rats off a sinking ship.
As an ex pat Englishman who has lived in the states for 25 years and has been in the music business all my life I can tell you that you just cannot get away with sh*tty anymore. Young people still want to go out and still do. Sound Nightclub in Los Angeles has firmly established itself as one of the longest running nightclubs catering to underground dance music and has operated for well over 10 years. It's still rammed! So why when all these clubs are closing is Sound working? Well it's simple. It's the offering. It's treating people who pay their admission fee like human beings and giving them an experience they can value.
Now, there is another part to this puzzle and that is the talent/music etc. We're in an age where Dj's / Producers need to prove value. Gone is the day of the DJ booth in the corner and the people dancing without a thought or care to who is playing. Now it's about the act having their hands in the air with the crowd reacting to them. You cant really connect like that with your audience at a festival so the club becomes the under play or the Petri dish but either way you're programming what people actually want and if you get it right, like they say, build and they will come. The talent love it when they can see people faces, the can see the reaction to the latest tune that the literally made on their laptop on the way to the gig….Its their chance to try things out, to express themselves, to take chances. They don't get that at festivals. We don't need live club music to turn into Spotify where its a numbers game…..
With the cool off on festivals and the desire for people to have an elevated experience and not have to hold their nose and close their eyes to relive themselves in a sh*tty porta potty, or have to listen to 60-80% of the line up they did not come to see, its clubs and interesting bespoke venues that are leading the way and whilst English clubbing my be in the "toilet" I am here to tell you that Los Angeles it is not and I do not see it being so anytime soon. BUT, you have to work it, you have to work hard to get everyone across the door, to convince the talent they should play, to make sure that the absolute maximum amount of folks walk out happy, that they don't feel like they have been bent over with a heavy door/ticket charge with a massive ticketing fee, that the drinks are good, that the bar tender was nice to you and thanked you, that the door staff are friendly, the the sound was excellent and the lights were fantastic. Cos if you don't, they ain't coming back.
Long live nightclubs:)
Keep up the good work Bob.
Dave Ralph - Framework
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As a long -term artist manager here in the UK and former chairman of the MMF UK, I can assure you the vast majority of managers here would disagree with you… Not only the managers, but the agents, festivals and the Big Acts who would actually Happily contribute £1 /$1 a ticket to the cause….. many many promoters too..
If artists are not able to develop their live careers through a 'ladder process', ie small clubs - larger venues - festivals, then on to larger venues and festival main stages and eventually arenas and stadiums…. Where the hell are the Coldplays, Arctice Monkeys, Oasis's of the future going to hone their craft and build an audience ?
Clubs are NOT just about rock music… they support music from All genres, Jazz, Grime, HipHop, Folk… you name it…. For a healthy and diverse range of music, those dedicated venues are essential…. Not only for the local music markets in each city, but for local communities too…
Unless you happen to want an endless sequence of solo pop artists to dominate the future music landscape FOREVER… then small venues are ESSENTIAL to the music eco-system For The Future.
Kids DO want to go to see bands play in clubs… I still go to packed shows in small clubs several times a week…. however, those clubs / pubs are making very little money and are becoming fewer and fewer … Why ? because the business rates (local city taxes), health and safety and security costs are sucking ALL the money up and making it not only unprofitable but loss making.
"Boo hoo, Tough Sh*t, that's progress" you say… "kids can get all they want from 'screens'" But imagine a world without these places ?? where kids stay at home and look at their screens without ever going out with their pals and experiencing Real Live Music and…. Real Life…. What a poorer, sadder miserable world it will be….
"The chance of building it from your local club, bigger and bigger into stardom, have never been lower"…. Yes because the places they can play are fewer and fewer…. Venues closing because of those rising costs left right and centre and don't give me that "oh they should just double the ticket prices" argument, please!
Yes music lovers can go to One Big Show a year at the kind of ticket prices you seem to think are "realistic" but how is that satisfying anyone but the Artist and Promoter of that show ?
You say; "Do I really want to hear some unsigned band playing original material, drowning out my conversation? ABSOLUTELY NOT!" Dude…. Why are you going to a club to have a conversation ?? You are there to there to see a musician deliver their 'best shot' for YOU….
There is literally Nothing as good as seeing an amazing band in a tiny venue and then years later to be able to say "I Was There"…
No…. the loss of these venues will be to the cultural detriment of society as a whole and to the detriment of the lives of our children.
Those who are trying to change that should be commended !
Stephen Budd
Record-producers.com
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I believe strongly in the wisdom of the market to determine what sort of art is viable and "good."
If the product isn't good enough, or there's a better product available elsewhere, people will migrate to new venues and activities.
Here's my take, admittedly idiosyncratic and personal, on the evolution of music clubs for my generation (I'm 60) and immediate followers, from the pre-punk era through the mid-80s and beyond. During that period, the live music scene in most big cities evolved from highly-skilled cover bands playing at popular venues to decent crowds who wanted to drink and dance to good music to, post-punk, a lot of mostly crappy to mediocre indie/original bands playing in smaller, funkier venues to their friends who were also in bands, with everyone there mostly in it for the hang/lifestyle, not the quality of the music. Certainly, no one was dancing.
Trust me, in Seattle, the average night with 3-4 bands on the bill at the Vogue in the 80s or the Crocodile in the 90s decidedly did not feature 3-4 Nirvanas, Pearl Jams, Soundgardens. The gems were rare.
Side note: Of course, there were and are exceptions. E.g., live country music is always popular for drinkers and dancers and requires skilled players and singers. Austin, Nashville, some other cities have maintained a thriving working musician scene. But Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, LA, Boston, NY, DC...the 80s and 90s saw small rock clubs explode in popularity in these towns.
So...for years, while catching a rising star at a dive club could be an ecstatic experience (and very infrequent), most of the music was not very good. But you went out anyway because going out and drinking a lot of cheap beer and hanging out with your friends and being part of the vibe and the scene was the most fun thing to do.
But not anymore. If you're a young person living in one of those cities these days, you're not pulling coffees and paying $300 for your monthly share of a house rental with your four bandmates and mostly interested in living a bohemian urban lifestyle. You probably work at Amazon or Google and make $150k+ a year, and you'd rather go to the climbing gym or stay at home on Twitch than go out with a bunch of people you don't know (and never will know, because you'll move to another city for a new job within 12-36 months) to hear music and watch performers that are mediocre at best, often just plain unskilled and crappy. Or if you do want to go to a music club, you go to a dance club featuring a DJ. Because you know the music will be good (if you like that sort of thing).
The post-punk music club product that drew crowds in urban centers was never the music -- the music was very rarely good enough to provide that draw. The product was the lifestyle, the scene, the vibe, the attraction of living on the margins and knowing things that other people didn't know because they didn't have the cojones to go to that part of town on a Saturday night. That's all gone. We have the internet -- everyone knows everything, instantly. No secret spots. No margins left in the big cities, cities that, culturally speaking, are victims of their own success, having priced out anyone and anything that could be considered marginal.
So with the music never having been good enough on average and the vibe and scene having dissipated for multiple reasons...the market has moved on.
More importantly and optimistically, Bob, think snow! La Niña or bust!
best,
dave dederer
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