1. folks assume they will be in a LOWER tax bracket when they retire, the taxation of social security generally levels this out and often people might be in a HIGHER tax bracket when they retire and the BIG ONE
2. People underestimate how long they are going to live (to your point). I have folks in my office often with parents in their 90's - let me tell you need a LOT of fucking money if you retire in your late 60's and live another 30 years!!!! Income is down and expenses are up!!
On another note, I'd bet money EVERY advisor around Bruce Springsteen was begging him to get his catalog sold before 12/31. The threat of increased long terms cap gains rates and the elimination of the weird and special ability of songwriters to declare their sale as a long term cap gains:
flypaper.soundfly.com/hustle/songwriters-heres-your-tax-loophole/
all the advisors of song writers I'm sure said the same thing on 2021: "IF you are EVER going to sell your catalog, don't wait, do it NOW!!!"
Peter Riley
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Long time reader, first time writer (this topic is near and dear to me, so I felt it was the right time). After spending 16 years in the music biz (mostly at Atlantic and Sony) I became a financial advisor because I saw an enormous lack of education around financial topics at all levels of the industry (music execs, artists, writers, producers). I became a resource for that information because I saw colleagues mismanage their money, go into debt, lose income because they didn't fully understand their group benefits, etc… and I didn't want that to happen to anyone else.
Taxes, income protection, investing, managing debt, retirement planning, maximizing social security…. All EXTREMELY important, but most folks aren't paying attention until it's too late. The biggest excuse I hear is "these are rich people's problems", but that's not the case AT ALL. You don't need to be a millionaire, or have a business manager, to be educated and have a plan for these areas. In fact, I'd argue it's even more important for the rank and file execs, and the writers/artists/producers who aren't making a boatload of money yet. These folks would have a tougher time paying for basic monthly expenses if there's ever a big tax/debt payment owed, or they can't work for a month or two (god forbid longer).
A word to the wise for any of your readers who earn an income… don't wait! There are advisors out there willing to talk about these topics. And some of us don't charge for our time, so no there's no excuse. I've had the opportunity to educate many clients from the music industry over the years, from CEOs and owners of labels to those just starting out. And I'll tell you what I tell each of them (paraphrasing Benjamin Franklin)…FAILING TO PLAN IS PLANNING TO FAIL.
Wishing you and your readers much success in 2022!
Andrew Feigenbaum
Financial Advisor
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Bob so right on. Not there yet but as a pension actuary it's a no brainer to defer as long as possible (plus these folks who take at 62 then also get to deal with having benefits clawed back if they still work and make over a not too high threshold).
In any event most of my clients are pure type A personalities, and retiring early is not in their DNA. Have a client who I know has more than enough in his small business and retirement savings to stop working (and literally use cash in the fireplace to keep warm and not be in a bad position). Stu is 85 and what keeps him alive and in the game is keeping his little business going.
Best
Mike Wyatt
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Those of us old enough to have been raised by parents who grew up during the Great Depression had instilled in us the belief that you did what you had to do to get by and if that meant working a shit job for shit pay until something better came along then so be it. Key to that thinking was the firm belief that something better would indeed come along if you just stuck with it.
I was deeply influenced by the economic insecurity I felt growing up and so put a premium on job security and a pension, which is why I saw the lower pay potential of a career in federal government as a reasonable trade-off for a reliable pension that would last a lifetime.
We live in a different world now. The kind of pension and job security I had is a thing of the past. People are no longer convinced that sticking with it will necessarily lead to success. Anti-work is now a thing.
I accept that time has passed me by and that I couldn't thrive in today's economy. The idea of working in a room at home as opposed to going into the big city seems very bleak to me. Imagine an entire generation that will never know the pleasure of having a favorite place for lunch.
But this is the only world my grandchildren will know. They are all pretty smart. They will figure it out.
George Laugelli
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I look forward to your emails each week. Thanks for posting the article about social security. I am a Registered Investment Advisor, a fiduciary to my clients. I subscribe to Kotlikoff's MaxiFi software and my job is to help my clients maximize their retirement income.
It is still an uphill battle but should they get the opportunity, my clients get it. In fact, the most difficult aspect of the process is to show people that dipping into their next egg to bridge the gap before age 70, so they can maximize the inflation protected social security benefit
Keep on telling the story. Much appreciative.
Rick Shrier
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I'm not a idiot for taking SS 1 month after turning 66 per my discussions with my accountant
I'd like to see you try to get by on what I was making the last 3 years. You couldn't
I choose to live my life after 45 years in the Music Biz. Not to kid myself that the $ was going to turn
So disappointed in you Bob for saying Everyone taking SS before their 70 is a idiot
Kevin Sutter
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Bob, I'm 66 and working part time. I decided to defer my social security for a year, but haven't been able to make my monthly nut -- even working 3 days a week. What planet do you live on where you can call everyone who doesn't wait til 70 to collect SS an imbecile? And in the very same column you write, " And sure, people are cheap, but they've also got a limited amount of money."
C'mon man.
Dave Rubien
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Money is a taboo subject to discuss in our society. We have socially acceptable ways to let people know we are affluent or successful. But actually revealing how much you have and what you do to invest it? It seems like the financial community has a vested interest in keeping us from shining any light on this subject. Yet money - whether you have it or don't have it - has an extraordinary influence on our lives. I have always thought it would make an interesting book to study how money influences peoples' attitudes about everything in their lives.
Lori Turoff
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Actually, recently advisors are talking about 2.6% (asset drawdown).
Tom Armstrong
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They should make financial literacy part of high school curriculum. It's the only way to have the best shot to educate the most people about financial issues. That way those whose parents don't teach them, those with parents who are bad role models on financial issues, and everyone else, including those who could be rich and famous one day or not would have the opportunity to learn about this important topic.
Neal Bookspan
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Hey Bob, I applied for social security at 62, but don't consider myself an imbecile
Sure I'm going to receive less for the rest of my life, but when you are on the brink of not being able to pay your mortgage and as a result losing your home you have to make hard decisions that are right for you at the moment.
As you mentioned, you have been broke in the past, so maybe you too, might have taken the 700.00 per month to your future detriment.
Still a homeowner in Washington
Howard Wolen
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Another great article. Once again your message resonates with me.
A few thoughts:
The name of my first book, if I ever get around to writing it: "For all the wrong reasons."
A realization after working with many rich people: "Rich People can Afford to be Stupid!"
Social Security expert (cost: $200) told my wife and I that there were two reasons for me to delay taking SS benefits until age 70 1/2. A. Survivor Benefits. Most likely men will die before their wife's die. My wife took her benefits at 64 ($2,000) and I took 50% of her benefits or $1,000. My $2,500 in benefits grew to $3,600 at 70 1/2. If I die my wife can take the higher of her's or my benefits. Expert said: $1,100/month or $13,200/year could make a big difference to the survivor. As Courtney said: do the math!
Together wife and I would have $4,500 that would be reduced when I died to $2,500 (not allowing for increases and assuming I didn't delay until 70 1/2) a reduction of $2,000 (44%) vs a reduction of $900 (20%) if I delayed.
Expert also said:
B. Where can you invest your money and get a guaranteed 8% return which is the rate you will earn per year if you delay. Better to live off your savings conservatively earning less than 8% and not guaranteed (assuming you have savings) then take SS early.
In the end, retirement is all about cash flow. Expert said: people always say they will downsize but when the time comes, they don't want to downsize to bring their expenses in line with their incoming cash flow. They refuse to make adjustments so they are living within their means. They refuse to grow up and be honest with themselves.
The road less traveled is about being "financially" responsible (living within your means) and delayed gratification (don't buy it until you can afford it).
While growing up I would ask my father to buy me many things. His answer was always: ask yourself, do you really need it? Answer was always no, so we (I) learned to live without.
I had lunch with an accountant who was a dear family friend during the 1990 recession. I said Don there is nothing worse than during down times not thinking that things will get better.
He said there was one thing worse. During good times not thinking that things could get worse.
Best wishes in the new year.
Bob Edwards
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I was listening until I hit the part "sells Maximize My Social Security software," You CAN leave money on the proverbial table by waiting until full retirement date...my best friend since 7th grade ( we're both 66) has plenty of $ and has bought into this bullshit about waiting until full retirement age to collect. He may have even paid for the same software, as he is wont to do..BUT he has the advantage of having enough $ to be stupid. I on the other hand do not so I started to collect SS at the age of 64 1/2.....Every personal situation is different.
All the best,
Chris O'Shea
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Thanks for the advice.
Just last week I said to my wife " I wish my father told me to invest in homes, land something. Living in Florida and he didn't know to do it. Or maybe he did & just didn't have the bucks.
and as a rock n roll garage band drummer I blew through money while in H.S. and college and yes, never became a rock star. great memories and had a corvette (but nobody told me to keep it and don't drive it). LOL!
I took SS at 67 - after open heart I did think I'd be here today and that my days were numbered.
but I have a good doc and still kicking at 74 1/2 - that 1/2 is important. And oh btw, still working. which I love but what sucks is I pay tax on my SS but I don't care as I'm still afraid politically it won't be around if it gets in the wrong/right hands.
And my wife knows how to save thank g-d.
stay well and keep grooving
Steve Hass
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Thank you for sharing! Financial literacy is so important. I grew up in a middle class family (single/divorced mother, 4 kids -I'm the youngest). Now that I'm an adult, I can see so many ways our family and countless others were misinformed about money. Many people know how to make ends meet (which is an important skill!) but don't know how to invest, budget and plan for their future. Not to mention salaries are low for a lot of people, so they focus on keeping food on their plates, a roof above their head and a few bills paid. And government programs are dwindling.
Thankfully, information is more available now… it doesn't solve for everything, but it helps.
Léna Lgd
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Great post as always - the article below offers a viable roadmap.
www.financialsamurai.com/when-to-take-social-security/
Tim Greco
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Re: 29% being astronomical, it is...and it's also about what the S&P returned this year. Could've bought SPY on Jan 1 and never looked back. Of course, everyone thinks they're a genius during a bull run up. You'd think the house of cards has to collapse sooner or later, but this makes 13 straight years of insanity.
Daniel Kellner
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Hey Bob,
Wonderful and timely.
Anytime that you write and link lessons / thoughts to your mother or father it is 5 star.
Alan Cassidy
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thank you for this...
Denise Mello
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Great piece on social security. I, too, went broke one time. Hopefully never again. I hope a lot of people read through your piece and grasp it.
Toby Mamis
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Yes, you don't know when you're going to die or what condition you'll be in as you age. Shit happens.
When it comes to money you follow the basics - save 10% of your pay, put it in an index fund (S&P 500 works), or use your firm's 401K especially if they do some sort of match. 18% of the 122 million US households are millionaires. The Thrift Savings Plan has over 6 M participants. TSP is the worlds' largest savings plan for US Govt employees and this is only 33% of the total.
When it comes to one's health it's nutrition and exercise. You don't go to fast food places, or eat processed foods. You watch portions, limit alcohol. We control what goes into our mouths, ears and eyes. So choose carefully.
IT'S ALL ABOUT CASH FLOW. Can you afford it or not, and do you have a stash for when stuff breaks. Period!
It isn't that hard. And if you're not paying attention you'll be fleeced.
Courtney Love is NOT typical. She came into prominence due to marrying Curt. And yes, being a musician is not the road to a stable financial platform. My son can play and has chops and so its a hobby as he enjoys paying his bills and living in his own place.
All the wealth advisors are playing the FUD card. Fear, uncertainty and doubt. They prey on peoples' uncertainty. There was this woman, a financial advisor, who lived in my hood who told my wife about how the short and long term bond rates were crossing over and this was a bad thing. Complete bullshit. She was playing the long con knowing that one day I would die before my wife and she was positioning herself as the go to advisor. I told my wife don't ever go near her. She knows nothing. Oh, yeah, worked for Wells Fargo - and she had no problem with that. No morals.
Terrance Moran
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A Big Thanks and an Agree...
Jim Eaton
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Great article and good and needed advice for your readers. Managing money is a skill which few posses or appreciate. I'm not one for mandates, but financial management and cooking/nutrition are essential skills for your mental and physical health and should be taught in schools.
And it is not uncommon for successful folks to go broke. If you made it once you are in much better position to make it back again as long as you have time.
Too many make small but frequent financial mistakes that compound over a lifetime, but the skillful and disciplined enjoy the compounding of small and frequent wins. Health and wealth, and one without the other isn't neatly as valuable.
Stay safe,
Ed Kelly
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Thanks, Bob. I am in my 62nd year and wanting to slow down in the law rat race. Figured I would just tap the social security and with retirement savings, all would be well. The problem is the more you make, the more you spend. So those fortunate ones who make decent money have to worry that retirement is going to leave them short, no matter how much we may have saved. Tough problem. And your posting captured it perfectly.
Happy New Year…
Andrew Zacks
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I resented being called an imbecile for applying for Social security at 66. I worked for the man for 30 plus years and I deserve it. Whether I die at 69 or 99. I still deserve my payout. You are completely wrong Bob!! You should retract.
David Bodnar
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I am one of the imbeciles that took social security before 70.
I took it at 63.
I was going to wait till 66 as that calculated out to be most beneficial if I live to 80.
After reading numerous articles that showed waiting till 70 would take 12 years to catch up to taking it at 62 I decided to jump in.
You might want to do some more research.
My SS has already funded some new skis!
Philip Beliveau
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Yes, most people overspend their income. It takes restraint and self-discipline to save.
One other piece of advice. It is far more likely that you will become disabled before you die, and will require some form of assisted living or skilled care, either at home or in a facility. The best advice I ever received was to purchase long term care insurance. Regular health insurance and Medicare don't cover the costs for assisted living. It can quickly deplete your savings. Quickly. If you can afford it and can be underwritten for it, purchase it as soon as you can.
My father could not be underwritten for it but he purchased it for my mom in her 60s. She's now 96 and has required assisted living care at home for more than a decade and 24/7 around the clock care at home for the past 5 or 6 years. Her policy pays for almost all of it and the costs are not cheap. It has allowed her to receive assisted living in her own home, which she prefers, kept her from having to live in an assisted living facility. And also taken a financial burden off of her kids to pay for her care. Best investment my dad ever made.
I was lucky to be healthy enough able to get underwritten for long term insurance when I was 60. Gives me tremendous piece of mind. I recommend it to everyone.
Barry K. Herman, MD, MMM
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Asians tend to put their fortune in real estate which generally yields good returns. That worked back in the days. However, if you have been following real estate prices in metropolitan cities like Hong Kong, Tokyo, Taipei or any commercial or industrial/tech focused cities in Singapore, China, Korea, India etc , You would know what's happening in the US or UK is now happening in these developing countries. I can't recall which publication but according to the article, a judge in Asia who has been practicing law in the legal field for 20-30 years said recently that he couldn't even afford buying a place near the courthouse in the city. The prices are just outrageous. Most Gen X-Z and Millennials cannot do it on their own without help from family eg help with down payment or mortgage.
Shirley Wu
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Excellent letter, Bob! Thanks!
Samuel Jones
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Hi Bob. I love your blog. Please remember to think and do research before name calling. I'm one of those "imbeciles" (your words) taking social security at full retirement (66) rather than waiting until 70. My father died at 57 and his father died at 57 too. I've done the math. And cumulative SS payments, whether low or high cross paths at around 78-80 yo. So if you live longer, yes, waiting until 70 makes sense because you will get more. But what if you die before 78? And no, I don't expect that SS will pay for everything. My point is that not everyone is an imbecile who doesn't think exactly like you do.
Jon Brooks
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Thanks for this. It ties into your recent email on the WSJ money management nightmares as we age.
Planning? While most of us never expected to get this old. I didn't plan much because my dad died when he was 38 (I was 10) and my mom was 62 when she died.
When you see how tenuous life is at such an early age, it affects you. You really DON'T expect to live to be very old, genes don't lie. You live life differently, in the moment. I had to get out, see everything, go places. The idea was to squeeze the most out of life. A stable, measured life may make living to be 95 easier but it isn't very appealing. My mom made some real money but she lived for the moment. Money was just a means to do more living. You don't save or plan, you go for it.
But you know that you go for it at your own peril. I think we'll see more people hit an age they didn't expect to reach and simply say; when the money is gone is when I will check out or I'll wait until my health impacts the quality of life to a degree I find unacceptable.
John Brodey
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So true. Was recently discussing with various groups of friends … everyone is different (& sometimes the ones who need the best info seem to have the least)
Wallace Collins
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Hey Bob, I don't think any of your readers expect you to know how the other half live but you should know enough by now to realize not everyone takes social security early because they're "imbeciles." There are a lot of factors involved where people have no choice whatsoever and they're then forever screwed whether they know or not. I just wanted to point that out because you're not usually so insensitive.
Dustin Edelhertz
_________________________________
There's a lot to unload in this letter.
As one of those "imbeciles", I took my Social Security as soon as I could. I watched two of my brothers, (that paid into the system all of their lives). wait. But, they didn't see Stage 4 cancer coming down the pike. They didn't get a fucking cent out of the system. Too young for Medicare, working shit jobs sans medical insurance and NO Obamacare, they couldn't even afford to catch the Big C in it's early stages.
One had prostate cancer. That's treatable!
So please excuse my imbecility for getting what I can out of the system while I am still above ground.
You were, to me, (a son of a single working mom with 7 kids), a child of privilege.You attended college. What were you schooled as? A lawyer?
Well…what can a poor boy do? 'Cept to sing for a rock and roll band. That's me. I was nearly good enough to almost play a frat party.
You're doing okay, though. But, for those of us on Social Security and still on the bottom, we still HAVE to work and most of us will...until we die. Or get too goddamn sick to do so. Guess what jobs we can get?
"Mooch" off of our kids? You must not be a parent. Those kids, in many cases, are still living with us!
And here you are telling us about how the hell the privileged can't get up to the top of a mountain, only to slide back down it.
Then again, my enjoyment is baseball. That dying game you wrote of in a recent letter. You know…that unpopular game that has the freak of a Japanese kid that can hit a 100 mph fastball and strike out hitters, (in the same game), with a 100 mph fastball.
The Occupy movement could have worked, by the way. Had some dude, that said he promised to "fundamentally change the way Washington worked", been the revolutionary he professed to be on the campaign trail and supported the people in that park and all of the ancillary protests that sprang up all over the country…nay, the world, maybe we wouldn't live in the shithole country we've been since Reagan. Maybe there would have never been Trump in the White House or a rampant, seemingly unending, pandemic.
Make no mistake...There will be no revolution without guns. That's so damn un-American, it hurts. The vast majority of liberal/progressive Americans, with higher education or not, are just too damn stupid and self-centered to pull one off.
But, the morons who succumb to the cult of Trumpism, know that. They are locked and loaded and coming. Not for your guns, (because we don't need guns. We have ideas.), but for your country.
Now…what was that about ski-lifties?
Scott Sechman
_________________________________
Highlight of my day being called an imbecile!
Gary Berlak
Fresno
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