Subject: Re: The Decline Of New Music
This is exactly what so many new artists and producers don't understand. People don't realize that they are in competition with their idols... it's literally the same marketplace. There's no "minor league" to hone your craft and create buzz. If you're confident you're ready for the big leagues, streaming services say: "Sure thing - good luck!" The music biz thrives on this kind of music hobby-ism, selling the dream, and the idea that "everyone deserves a seat at the table" - no one wants to tell someone they aren't good enough... especially not when they can profit off lying about it. This was not always the case.
It would be like giving film students the ability to upload their senior projects directly to Netflix or Hulu for a fee. Are you sure you want to compete with... Stranger Things? or Love is Blind? or Top Gun? To your point, even if you managed to create something beautiful, interesting, fresh, or GOOD, there's barely an audience to support it. No one has the time or energy to sift through it all and few outlets offer meaningful criticism anymore to help with the sifting.
I think it's possible to chart a course that looks something like a middle class career in music if you have a work ethic, don't give up, play the game, and get some luck. Same as it always was. But most musicians/artists I meet don't know the first thing about how to actually earn money making music, how royalty streams work, or most importantly, who they are in competition with.
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From: Jarred Arfa
Subject: Re: The Springsteen Ticket Fracas
Bob,
While seemingly not the situation here the problem with the bots on many on sales is not that they get in ticketing systems first and buy seats it's that they sit on inventory and many times don't actually buy the tickets. (Typically to protect inventory brokers already have purchased in the market so they want to push fans straight to secondary.) So what happens is Joe fan shows up at 10am and can't get in the system bc the bots are holding up all of the seats. 20 minutes later the bots have released plenty of inventory but the fans have already given up and think the show is sold out when it's not. Many times ppl just think of bots as a tool to beat fans to tickets but the other part of it is the deception it creates in the market about what is actually available on an onsale.
Best,
Jarred
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From: Anton Fig
Subject: Re: The Springsteen Ticket Fracas
Business is business, but music acts should appreciate that going to a show should not be a privilege to the wealthy.
I was impressed with what the Smile did when they played three shows in London earlier this year.
Tickets were linked to ID's and non-transferable. If someone could not go to the show and wanted to sell their ticket, they could get a full refund and the ticket went back into the pool of people on a wait list.
Not sure this would work on the stadium scale, but it worked remarkably well for these shows.
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From: Brendan Hasenstab
Subject: Re: The Springsteen Ticket Fracas
Funny that Trent Reznor got this right back in 2009, for Nine Inch Nails' "Wave Goodbye" tour. It was all done through NIN.com. You could purchase up to two tickets, it was run with wristbands and Will-Call window pickup for tickets. Took a lot of people to orchestrate it, but was smooth as butter the night I went to Webster Hall for the show I got tickets for. ZERO scalpers. Also, next to no re-sale because my name was printed on the wristbands and the Will-Call folks checked ID.
And yet all these years later, no one has copied this model, and so you get clusterbombed like Bruce Springsteen did.
Someone should tell the Boss to give Trent a call.
Best regards,
---Brendan
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Subject: Bruce Springsteen
UK gigs -£600 per ticket
US gigs -$4000 to$ 5000 a ticket
Including $569.50 booking fees
Man of the People —-I don't think so !!
Harvey Goldsmith
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From: Whitten Pell
Subject: RE: The Springsteen Ticket Fracas
Bruce has never sold out Dallas or Kansas City...two markets I know about. Further he tanked so badly in the Dakotas he lost a well-known promoter over $200k. so as you noted there a many markets where "the boss" is just another high profile touring act.......
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From: John-Angus MacDonald
Subject: Re: The Decline Of New Music
Hey Bob,
My take away from this is … that's just how long a song released in 2018/2019/2020 takes to permeate the landscape. As you pointed out, the old gatekeepers of radio, traditional media, television are either gone, not trusted or less influential than ever before. People still want to discover "new" (to them) music, there's nothing more exciting, but it takes a lot longer (2, 3 years??) for the target audience, those who will be turned on by it, to find it. I need look no further than my own "new music" discoveries on the DSP's. Do I care whether is was release in any one of the last five years? No, it's new to me and I love it and will follow it. That's the whole point IMO, both as an artist and a fan, get it to the people who will like it by any means necessary and on any timeline. Maybe it's time to redefine that which is "current" and that which is "catalogue".
Best,
JA
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From: Christian Ver Halen
Subject: HEY BOB Re: The Decline Of New Music
Two points:
1) Why is NOBODY talking about the fact that we are no longer talking about sales, we're talking about active LISTENING HABITS.
For the past 70 years the only metric we had was sales. That's how we were programmed to understand success. Now we're seeing actual listens. If you bought an album in 1967 and still listened to it in 1972 there was no way to measure that. I was a teen in the 80's. Me and my friends listened to a ton of Led Zeppelin. My older brothers had the albums = no sales. No way to track that. Were people actively listening to Led Zeppelin more than Culture Club? Were other teens were discovering older music? Of course they were. No way to know.
How many albums did you buy, listen to once, then throw in your collection? And how many albums did you listen to constantly until you wore out the grooves? How many did you come back to a couple years later when you were ready for the music? THERE WAS NO WAY TO QUANTIFY THESE STATS. They all counted as one sale each. Totally even. End of story.
If you asked most people what is the most popular Beatles song they'd say "Yesterday" without hesitation. Yet "Here Comes The Sun" has almost DOUBLE the amount of listens. A George Harrison song is the most popular Beatles song. Let that fry your brain for a moment.
We are, just now, learning what people are actually listening to. And it's not the same as album sales and it's not the same as concert ticket sales. I suspect it's always been this way but there was simply no way to measure it.
2) Why hasn't pop music changed more? Lyrics, chord progressions, and production have been stagnate for such a long time. Again, growing up in the 80's when I heard music from the 50's the production sounded ANCIENT. Even 60's recordings sounded crusty and that was only two decades earlier. Nowadays productions from the 80's sound not-really-all-that-different from today's music (if you told me six months ago that Kate Bush would be the breakout artist of 2022 I would have kicked you in the shin). Why is music still verse-chorus-verse-chorus and 3.5 minutes long? Why haven't teens invented new styles? So much going on in the world and we still only get songs about relationships. Has there been one hit about the pandemic??? Seems to me Tik Tok is ripe to get people to start making 1 minute long songs. We'll see.
This also translates to fashion. There is such a major distinction between fashion from the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's. You can easily picture each of them in your mind. What's distinct about the fashion of the 2000's or 2010's? Some changes in fit, no major changes in colors, patterns, etc. At least not compared with 20th century decades. Not even close.
Everyone's staring at their phone watching and copying what everyone else is doing instead of sitting around bored and creating out of necessity. We need an artistic revolution.
-Christian Ver Halen
International Program Director
Blue Note Entertainment Group
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From: Tom HEDTKE
Subject: Re: Streetlife Serenader
Back in the 80's Joel came to play Sacramento. They had played the Bay Area the night before and they were frankly pretty flat. 4th song in is Piano man. At the end of the song the crowd erupted and gave him a standing ovation for close to 10 minutes. No joke. They weren't flat after that. Joel was freaking out. It turned into one of the best shows I've ever seen and easily the best of his I've seen. He never slowed down and it was pretty obvious the band better keep up. Did 3 encores and really wanted to do another but they pulled him off the stage. Perhaps that was choreographed but we didn't think so. The man was inspired. Will never forget that..
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From: Musicians Contact
Subject: RE: Streetlife Serenader
Bob, I still have Billy Joel's paper resume, dated November 8, 1972, that he filled out in my office, looking for gigs. At the bottom he wrote "Don't call me unless you have a group together working and making money. I'm not interested in jamming or fucking around". A couple weeks later he came in again and crossed out "fucking" and replaced it with "messing", thinking it might offend an employer. True story!
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From: Paul W Robinson
Subject: RE: Streetlife Serenader
Billy Joel actually cold cocked me during an interview where I mocked him for sounding like the Chipmunks on his debut LP "Cold Spring Harbor" The master was recorded at UltraSonic Studios (once owned by the Isley Brothers) in Hempstead, New York.. Also, I mocked Billy for "using the town "Oyster Bay" on the tune "Billy the Kid"... Joel was actually from Hicksville, and he was a Golden Gloves boxer...
I deserved what I got!
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Subject: The Beatles in mono.
Jeez Bob, If you went to an art gallery and found they had put a pink wash over a Monet or maybe put some jewelled highlights on a Picasso you could be forgiven for being devastated but that is the exact thing that appears to have happened to The Beatles on Spotify.
All the Fab Four's records up to The White Album were recorded on 4 track tape recorders and mixed in Mono. All pop music in the UK was mixed in Mono, Stereo being reserved for Classical and "proper" music. Any stereo versions of songs before Sergeant Pepper were actually done long after the records were made largely because of pressure from EMI's US subsidiary Capital. These Stereo mixes are horrible with usually the instruments in one speaker and the singing in the other and most of the mono effects rendered useless by the artificial stereo.
All the Beatles discography was lovingly remastered in 2009, the early albums of course in mono. A separate remastering of the artificial stereo mixes was also done. The remastered albums were supported by a "back to mono" campaign.
Today I had a notion to listen to "Girl" from the amazingly reverb-less album "Rubber Soul". It is NOT AVAILABLE in it's correct mono form anymore on Spotify! Only the shitty novelty faux stereo versions are available. I'm sorry but this is ART, art that changed the world and is still incredibly influential to musicians to this day. This is like going to the Musee d'Orsay and finding the Impressionists are all in 3D and you have to wear silly glasses to view them. How can whatever company that controls the Beatles legacy let this happen? You can still hear the records in Mono on YouTube and despite the poorer audio quality, they still sound better than the "stereo" versions on Spotify. A disgrace.
Jim Hall musician/composer, Wellington, New Zealand
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Subject: Re: DragonFly Cobalt
Bob,
I feel compelled to echo your props on the DragonFly. It's beyond astounding; it's entirely renewed my love for a lot of music. I got a Cobalt last year, coinciding with the Zappa Trust going hi-res with Qobuz. I got the Apple camera adapter too (worth it), specifically to listen in the car, and whoa, did my $300 whim suddenly skyrocket. Days later, and $1,600+ more, I had an iPhone 12 with the highest storage capacity available. I don't know about Amazon Music or the others, but Qobuz makes it very easy to fill one's phone with hi-res files, and my old 6S+ didn't even remotely cut it for the massive amount of hi-res I suddenly needed to carry everywhere. Pardon my metaphor, but there is little more boner-inducing to me than listening through the DragonFly in the car. I listen to Zeppelin tunes that I thought I'd tired of years ago, and hear details that were just never there--on vinyl, cd, remaster, etc., and the punch! It all feels so new again. It's entirely and single-handedly revitalized my love for music I grew up with. Glad to hear you've discovered it too!
Best,
Jeremy Fleisher
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From: Justin Brown
Subject: Re: Genelecs/More DragonFly
Hello Mr Lefsetz, can you please explain more in-depth what listening to music was like in your time? You said you guys didnt multi-task while listening? That is literally a challenge for me. I was born in 2000. Why has the great music culture that you speak of disappeared?? I'm asking because I wish I could experience those times you speak of. But it seems as if people who claim to be music lovers are actually fame whores. They buy the brand, not the music. And the music that they DO listen to, is very discouraging and low in Morality & Creativity. Sometimes I feel myself longing to live in a past time before social media & technology led to people isolating themselves. I get incredibly jealous of people who were young in the 70s & 80s.
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Subject: Re: Jim Kerr-This Week's Podcast
Hi Bob,
I've been a Simple Minds fan since the beginning, have every album. I've never heard Jim Kerr in conversation until now. I expected to listen to a little bit of the podcast but that was not possible. He's a remarkable storyteller. That voice, his keen intelligence and your questions made this one of the best podcasts I've ever listened to.
Thanks,
Jeff Capshew
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From: james kerr
Subject: Re: Podcast is up!
People love good songs, but they love good stories even more. Been that way since the start of time I guess.
I love listening to your show for that reason.
If I had to pick a fave to date I'd probably go with your chat with Bob Ezrin.
Mind blowing!
Best,
Jim
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Subject: Re: It Don't Matter To Me
Bob.
Glad you finally discovered us (50 years later but who's counting) and I appreciated your examination of It Don't Matter to Me
Two things:
1. David was nowhere near 40 when we did that record, he had just turned 30 or was about to.
2. Your analysis of the record was almost entirely about the lyrics but what I think was extraordinary about that song was the chord progression and the melody. It was always my favorite Bread song.
The controversy at the time was to follow Make it with You with It Don't Matter or Look What You've Done which featured Jimmy Griffin on vocals. The label was in favor of IDMTM for continuity's sake and so was I simply because I loved the song.
When Bread was formed the idea was to have two lead singers but after IDMTM and especially after If, it was David's band.
When we signed, everybody (including David) expected Jimmy to be the main singer but it didn't turn out that way. Jimmy was the stronger singer but David was writing better singles and had worked out a fabulous way of recording himself. Had Jimmy gotten a hit the entire Bread history would have been different for better or worse. (He died in 2005)
In any case thank you for shining some light our way.
Robb Royer
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Subject: Re: The Bear
It's an FX series . John Landgraf does support artists in a really amazing way. I made a series called Legit with Jim Jefferies and and another the Riches with Eddie Izzard on FX- and all they wanted was good and on budget. Incredible creative freedom . Amazing experience. One of the best I've had.
Peter O'Fallon
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From: Craig Anderton
Subject: Re: Biden
"The authors write on computers, they send the file to publishers on computers, they're edited on computers, BUT THE BOOK MUST COME OUT IN PHYSICAL FORM!"
My "treating-books-like-software" continues to be exceptionally/unexpectedly successful. No major publisher would do it, but etailers TOTALLY got it. And now THEY'RE making money from books instead of "publishers."
I just got reversion of rights for books that a publisher insisted had to come out on paper. Now they can become part of my collection of downloadable books.
For this author, life is GREAT in the virtual world! And life sucks with paper.
Craig
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From: Dan Millen
Subject: Re: Biden
This:
"And you've got to speak to the issues that young people are concerned with. Debt, the minimum wage, income inequality. To be born knowing it's nearly impossible to make it?"
Ironically the right is speaking to those issues and seems to have captured them. Their message of course is "this ain't' my 'merica anymore and we're all getting screwed" so let's demonize immigrants and minorities and radical liberals and woke corporations.
They got it wired so short and tight that even though they themselves are a minority they are able to evilly chip away at our basic human rights - including the right to free and fair elections, dictate our morality, and strip-mine our economy all in the name of "the lefties are trying to take our 'merica away from us."
People eat that shit up because it's short, dumb, and angry.
It's time SOMEBODY who isn't evil learned how to speak the language of "short, dumb, and angry" because that's all people will listen to. Even the smart ones.
It's not about policy and nuance anymore and may not be for a long time. It's about good vs evil, and evil is winning because evil knows how to communicate.
And the fact that NOBODY in the democratic party seems to get that is just baffling to me.
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From: Ron Eschaton
Subject: Re: Change
Spot on as usual Bob!
With regards to the Kavanaugh/SCOTUS dinners……….
My wife and I have decided to fly into the DC area every other weekend and then we wait for word on where the justices will be dining (there's a Twitter account). Then we Uber to the restaurant armed with airhorns/noisemakers!
It's really the least we can do to preserve our democracy!
Ron E
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Subject: Re: Change
To follow upon your idea that change comes from the bottom up, a perfect example is Karl Rove's plan to focus Republican Party efforts on gaining control of state houses. With the now decades long paralysis of U. S. Congress, power has devolved back to the states and Democrats will be playing catch up for at least another decade..
This was no doubt aided and abetted by the failure of most voters to pay much attention to state and local races. I'm a faithful and careful voter but up until this year there were always certain local races I skipped over.
Not this year. I am voting every slot down to and especially including the school board race. This is where conservative radicals are focusing their attention and so should the rest of us. As you point out, the center can hold if people get upset enough to pay attention and do something.
George Laugelli
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From: Ryan Nixon
Subject: Re: Change
Bob,
I'm wiping the tears of laughter from my face right now. Not only am I an ardent supporter of The Free State Project and have been for many years, I also hope to be a participant in the near future. What is with you evangelical progressives? No one who disagrees with your inane notions are allowed to exist anywhere else? You can have your socialist dystopia in California where you can still murder your baby five minutes before birth and in other states there might be a few restrictions. Who cares? Don't you worship "Democracy"? As long as the results are what you want I suppose. Anyway I'm just so happy that the FSP has garnered national attention. It is fantastic. If the entirety of the NYC city council can be avowed Socialists then the State Senate of New Hampshire can be Libertarians, tit for tat as far as I see it. With any luck in a few years they will collapse the sham that is the public school system at least in NH, it's mass exodus of students will continue elsewhere in the country. Teachers Unions will actually have to find productive work for once in their lives. Well, stay triggered and don't forget to wear your mask and get your boosters.
Frank
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From: Alan Abrahams
Subject: Re: Manchin
Bob,
Your take on Manchin..."DINO"..............Perfect!...............you are perfectly on point regarding this asshole.
This hypocrite may be eyeing some bigger place for himself, I don't care what his aspirations are, his insurrection is equally insidious.........
When my bestie, Joan Baez (I also produced 3 of her albums and our families have remained very close for over 30 years) received The Kennedy Center Honor a couple of years ago - her segment included the small group of attendees (Covid) were singing "We Shall Overcome"..............and there over her shoulder (positioned himself to be in the frame) was Dino Manchin merrily singing along.......that's how much of a clueless putz he is.....................It's all about HIM!.........He and donnie boy deserve each other.
Yes, Dems...............grow some balls and get him the f--k out!
Keep up the great work Bob...........and thank you!
Alan Abrahams
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From: Toby Mamis
Subject: Re: Manchin
I believe there is a group of more progressive Democrats in W Virginia who have organized to try to begin getting positions throughout W Virginia in a plan to challenge Manchin.
theintercept.com/2022/06/30/joe-manchin-west-virginia-democratic-party/
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From: thomas quinn
Subject: Re: The Decline Of New Music
Ever watch Jeopardy! when they have a clue about a song, musical act, or TV series from the last 5 years?
It's usually three blank stares.
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Subject: Re: The Decline Of New Music
Music brings people together…with no common reference, the world will have no common bond
:)
- Al Connelly
Glass Tiger
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